238: Mailbag Mondays - How to be a good Tarot client, The Queens, and Death Cycles in our Business
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We're back with another Mailbag Monday roundup segment on Tarot for the Wild Soul podcast, where I answer some of the lovely Q's that come through the Ask Lindsay mailbag!
Air date:
August 7, 2023
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About the Episode
We're back with another Mailbag Monday roundup segment on Tarot for the Wild Soul podcast, where I answer some of the lovely Q's that come through the Ask Lindsay mailbag!
Today, we answer three beautiful listener Q's, one about how we might go about being a "good" Tarot client, one about how to feel into our deepest relationship with the Queens of the Tarot, and one about how to gracefully and transparently navigate a Death cycle in our Business.
Lindsay’s Links:
Learn more about Lindsay and dive into all of their courses, journal posts, and free resources here!
Got Q's for the podcast? Ask them here!
Download the (free!) Ultimate Soul Tarot Card Guide here
PODCAST EDITOR: Chase Voorhees
PODCAST TRANSCRIPTIONISTS: Meghan Lyman, Terri Wanjiku, Annelise Feliu, Valerie Cochran
PODCAST ART: Rachelle Sartini Garner
Land Acknowledgement
Honoring and acknowledging that this podcast episode was recorded on the unceded land of The Confederated Tribes of Grand Ronde, currently called Portland, OR, with the deepest respect to the Kalapuya Tribe, Cowlitz Tribe, and Atfalati Tribe.
Please Note
CW Tags: chronic pain, chronic illness, physical death, loss of a loved one, and grief
The content in this episode contains references to chronic pain, chronic illness, physical death, loss of a loved one, and grief. We have done our best to identify difficult subject matter, but the labels may not be comprehensive for your personal needs. Please honor your knowing and proceed with necessary self-awareness and care.
Transcript
[Introduction]
[0:00:00]
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Hello, Wild Souls. It's Linds here at the top of this episode to share a very exciting announcement about an early bird discount on a brand new workshop that will be coming out later this month called Reversals. Created by me, Reversals is an audio and e-book-based workshop that offers transformative and digestible support for folks around the meaning and the medicine in reversed Tarot pulls. This workshop is designed to help participants to dismantle the, I believe, fairly harmful overcultural perception of reversed card meanings as being very negative, very bad, we’re on the wrong track, which isn't true, and you'll find out why in this workshop (Lindsay laughs). It's here to help folks demystify and simplify reversed card meanings for themselves so that they can pull and interpret their readings and other folks’ readings more confidently, and open to the beginnings of a really beautifully rewilded kinship with reversed cards. Participants will come away from Reversals with, I believe, a real wealth of resources and, again, increased confidence around understanding reversed card meanings in their readings from a Soul Tarot framework.
The workshop comes with a pre-recorded audio lesson from me around reversals from this framework, ways to understand what they might represent, mean, or be bringing to any reading that they show up in. And, honestly, an incredible ebook with reversal-based interpretations for all of the 78 cards of the Tarot. So you'll have a resource where if you pull a card reversed, you have no clue what it means, you'll be able to go right to it and have a really nice, concise starting point on different ways to view it. I've been wanting to do something like this for years. I did a podcast episode on reversals the other week, mentioned, “Would anyone like this?” We heard from a bazillion of you (Lindsay laughs), which is great. Not a problem. But yeah, it wanted to come through right away, so here it is. Enrollment for Reversals is actually open today. And from today, Monday, August 7th to Thursday, August 10th we're having a special little early bird discount sale. So if you feel called to this work, called to this offering and you'd like to get it at a little discount, I encourage you to take the leap. The link to learn more about the workshop and to sign up is in your show notes. Material for the workshop drops on Friday, August 25. And once you sign up for this course you'll have lifetime access to the material. Thanks so much, Wild Souls, and thanks for listening. Thanks for being here. And I hope you love the workshop.
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[0:03:06]
Welcome to Tarot for the Wild Soul, a podcast that explores the Tarot through an inclusive, soul centered, trauma-informed perspective for growth, healing, and evolution. I'm your host, Lindsay Mack.
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Hello, Wild Souls, and welcome back to Tarot for the Wild Soul podcast. Always a joy to be gathered with all of you. I hope that this episode greets you well. I hope that the August Monthly Medicine greeted you sweetly and abundantly, and I hope it was really resonant, and juicy, and good. I'm so happy to be here with all of you. We're gonna be continuing on with our summer segment, our little series “Mailbag Mondays”. This one like, not last week, but the last Mailbag Monday episode I did, it was like a little roundup. And this one's going to be the same. So we have three lovely questions and yeah, I'm gonna move through them one by one. If you have questions for Mailbag Mondays or… Eventually, we may pivot. I'm really enjoying Mailbag Mondays (Lindsay laughs), so who knows? It was supposed to be a summer segment. Maybe it will be, maybe it won't be. I don't know. But I want your questions for real. So if you have Qs, go to the show notes, go to Ask Lindsay, write 'em to me. I would love to focus on these questions and answer them for you (Lindsay sighs). Thank you for being here again.
Okay, we're gonna dive in. So this first question is from Laura. Laura asks,
Hi, Lindsay. So many thanks to you and your amazing team.
They truly are amazing, Laura. Thank you for recognizing them.
I have a question I don't think I've heard you cover before. You've given advice on how to become a good professional Tarot reader and I wonder: do you have any tips for how to be a good Tarot client? I'd love advice on how to navigate receiving a reading, processing my feelings around it, and integrating it with my own inner wisdom.
Some additional context: a wonderful body worker who I see on the regular mentioned a Tarot reader/astrologer/clairvoyant that they see, and whose insights they find to be incredibly valuable. I'm intrigued and asked to get her contact info, and now I'm debating whether or not to reach out. I'm not sure whether this reader’s take on the cards will be in alignment with my beliefs, but I also want to be open to whatever insights and medicine the experience of getting a reading from her might offer me.
[0:05:44]
Wow, what a great question. I don't know where to begin with this one. So, I want to… Ooh, okay (Lindsay laughs). I want to take this in two directions. So, I want to first start with the utilization of your term “good”, and I'm not here to pick at that. “Good Tarot client” is a perfect utilization. I would just love to pop in as I answer it. And we can use that word… I will probably proceed from here by utilizing the word “respectful”. So I'm going to do two branches of this answer and I'm going to talk about how to be a respectful Tarot client and an empowered Tarot client because I think both are equally important.
So, a respectful Tarot client. There are some obvious things, right? There's not being rude to the Tarot reader if you don't get the answer you want. Pay for the time even if you don't get the answer you want. It's still energy and services rendered. Don't treat your Tarot reader like they're a cold psychic. I also think a lovely way to be a very respectful Tarot client is to really pay attention to your Tarot reader’s guidelines. So if your Tarot reader is somebody who works with, like I do, a specific inquiry, like there's a question on your heart—come in with that. You know? Come in with that. In the past, I… All of my clients are lovely and respectful. I've only had maybe a few in my whole career that have been actively disrespectful. And I wouldn't say the following is disrespectful, but it's tricky sometimes when you have very clear guidelines about how you read and, you know? And it's a lot more labor and work for your client to help you dig out a question (Lindsay laughs), you know? So come in with something, even if it's a very deep desire to have an understanding of the useful Anchors, the invitations to pay attention to over the next six months. That's a very deep inquiry. Coming in and saying something to the effect of “Whatever the cards want to tell me is fine,” it's not my job. I have no clue in what context this is coming up for you, so it's just a little bit more labor for the reader. And it's a non-disrespectful take because most folks would never think that that was tricky for a reader but it can be, depending on the reader. And also, some readers don't want to know anything about what you have going on. They just want to read cold, and I absolutely respect that. So in terms of being a respectful Tarot client, you know, just reading and paying attention and knowing the guidelines around what your reader is doing is helpful if you want to go the extra mile.
And then empowered Tarot client: there's no bill of rights for Tarot clients. There's no guide, there's no code of ethics for Tarot readers. So there's very little… And the power dynamics in a reading are, I feel, extreme. There is somebody holding a deck of cards who is either saying that they're intuitive or is intuitive and actually wants to be of service. And for the client, especially if there isn't an understanding about these things, it can really feel like, “This person knows things about me, has access to information I don't know about, is ascended in a way that I am not, so I can't make them upset. I can't… You know, I have to be good,” whatever. And that attitude and that power dynamic can cause Tarot clients to sit through violent Tarot readings, violent and horrible, harmful readings in the name of, like, “Well, this person must know something I don't.”
[0:11:22]
If you are ever in a situation, dear sweet listeners, I don't care how good, how respected… I don't give a fuck. If you feel unsafe, if you feel like, “Oh, this is really activating,” it doesn't even need to be their fault. It doesn't even need to be anything that they've said to you. It is okay for you to stop any reading and walk away. They don't know… Tarot readers are humble channelers of Spirit in the best scenario who are benevolent, good, want you to feel as supported as possible, are making huge space for where you're at, are willing to admit, like, “I might not know this.” They want to help. It's a feeling, right? It's a sense. And that doesn't always mean they get it perfectly right all the time or that… It might not be reading that really jazzes you up. It might not be your style of reader. But even if they're really nice, you are free to walk away. You can advocate for yourself. They don't have access to fucking anything without you. I can't read on you without your consent and permission, you know? No one really can, even if they claim to. So if you feel like it's a no, you dictate that. It's a no. So that's how you can be an empowered Tarot client is by knowing that, yes, there is a power dynamic present. And that, I believe, is the responsibility of all Tarot readers to recognize, and understand, and try to name and acknowledge because it's a lot.
And, I would also weave in here that how and where kind of “respectful” and “empowered” collide is that there are times where with certain clients—typically for folks who are maybe having a little bit of a hard time not getting the answer that they want, or being angry that their Tarot reader isn't a psychic or a medium—kind of get angry or disappointed, or attempt to, like, judge the reader on the way that they're interpreting the cards (Lindsay laughs), you know? And in some cases, this can feel really disrespectful, and in some cases, it can be really empowering, because if somebody is interpreting a card in a way that is just so outside of the paradigm of what feels truthful and respectful and helpful, then we want to say, “I'm so sorry to put a stop to this. This is absolutely not for me, but thank you for your time.” You know? Just walk away.
And then if we're like, “I have a way that I know the cards, and that is the right way. And this person is deviating from that, and I'm so consumed with that that I'm not actually listening to what they're saying,” then we want to maybe pause and get curious with that, right? Slippery slope, though, because I do think it's important to always be checking in with ourselves, like, “Does this reading really…does it feel okay? Does it feel like there's a really sturdy space?” No one can be perfect, obviously, and, you know, things can happen. But I think in a nutshell, those are some of the ways that people can be respectful clients and empowered clients. And I also just want to add in a caveat which is like, just don't be an asshole, you know? (Lindsay laughs) Asshole looks different on everybody, but I'll just say that. Don't be an asshole. Don't be abusive, don't be entitled, don't be a jerk, you know? And for the folks who are never going to be an asshole, those are hopefully some gentle pointers. Remembering that every Tarot reader is really different, and respecting the fact that one person's style just might not be for you I think is—but another person's might be—is really important, right? Really important. So thanks for trusting me with the question. Hopefully, I did some justice to it.
[0:16:48]
This next question is from Chelsea. And they ask,
First of all, thank you for nurturing me and my relationship with the cards since I first encountered your work in 2018.
Aww!
I'm so grateful.
Thank you for being here, Chelsea. It literally means the entire world, so thank you.
I've just started working my way through your offering on The Court Cards.
That is my brand new offering for folks who are working through, again, their relationship on the Courts, and you can sign up at the link in the show notes. Okay, back to Chelsea.
You mention a deep personal relationship with a Queen that reflects our inner self, a part of our self that may not be obvious on the outside. I am so yearning for this type of personal connection and identity. A lot has been falling away from me this Chariot year and it has not been easy, but so necessary. As a result, I'm feeling a bit bewildered by all of the open space of being without my crab shell. I'm having trouble knowing which of the Queens is truly the inner me as I feel a bit lost in general. Do you have any suggestions for how I can work to see which energy is inside of me and more deeply connect with it?
I'd be honored to speak to this, Chelsea. The first thing that I just want to… What is the word I'm looking for? Um… (Lindsay laughs) It's always a great thing on a podcast to say “um” a bunch of times. Validate. The first thing that I want to kind of validate and affirm is that all Queens are in you. All Queens are in all of us. They all live in all of us. All the Court cards, all the Tarot cards live within all of us. Some of them are more present. They're just where the sun is shining a little bit more. There's a little bit more attention. And related to the Queens specifically, I have used the languaging in the past of there's usually one, maybe two Queens that are kind of like our primary essence. They’re in… What I like to look at that as is like the equivalent of, what's a place within yourself where you really feel like home, and how does home translate? What does that feel like? And what historically has helped you to feel like a sense of coming back to yourself, you know?
And for me, I've talked about this many, many times. In spite of the work I do, which maybe looks more Queen of Wands-esque… I appreciate Queen of Wands, of course, it is in me, but my primary essence is absolutely Queen of Cups. And that relates to the way I identify and connect with Queen of Cups, which is maybe different than you do, you know? And that's the tricky and glorious thing about the Court Cards, is that in the way that I teach it in that workshop, my goal, my humble goal, is to provide a slightly different and more parallel foundational understanding and root system to start our learning off with. But then from there, you'll form your own relationships with them and you'll form your own associations, and they will likely wildly deviate from mine or from other people's. And there will be some of them that will feel very bonded to…they'll feel very parallel to what I've shared, or something in the Golden Dawn treatment of them.
[0:20:40]
So, all of them live within you. And the way you know that is just by kind of tracking, just by kind of paying attention. So I hate to…I don't want in any way to limit these babies, to limit them in any way because your Queen of Cups could be my Queen of Swords, you know? So I'm just going to put the… I'm going to paint with an incredibly broad brush here, and I wish I could go probably broader, but we'll try.
So your specific question, “How can I work to see which energy is inside of me and more deeply connect with it?” The first thing I want to encourage you to do is pull out your four Queens and ask them and say, “Hey, in this time of massive tumult, and change, and wildness, which card is showing up as my Anchor right now? Like, what Queen is the most resonant, the most helpful, the most…yeah, the most present for me at this time?” And then pull and see if that matches for you. I also want to invite you to just feel into it. And I understand you're asking me because you're not totally clear. But if there's something in your gut that you're like, “No, I don't know,” I encourage you to really trust it. I really, really do. Because that's the whole beauty of Tarot Anchoring, which is a whole branch of Soul Tarot, which basically is kind of reading without pulling. It's reading kind of decklessly, and it's getting to decide for ourselves, “I recognize this as a High Priestess season.” “I recognize this as a date with Queen of Swords or Queen of Wands.” Like, “I recognize this as a call from that part of me.”
So I just want to kind of give you some more concrete things to look at. And then in terms of the primary essence, and again, this is a wildly broad brush. And I'll bet you if we were all in dialogue together, you might be like, “Lindsay, I don't know… What?” Like, you may have questions. So just know that this is off the cuff. And, yeah, I'll do my best with it. The Queens are about… Ideally, hanging with them is what we might get on retreat. Like in the most ideal sense, we'll come back with our cup really filled and our spirit replenished. Again, that's not true of all retreats, but let's say like, your dream retreat, right? If your cup is generally really, truly filled by deep solitude, by time just sort of tuning in with yourself, being kind of internal, answering a deep call, going within, hanging out in the cave a little bit, working in the cave a little bit, maybe it's a little harder to get you out of the cave (Lindsay laughs), you know? Not necessarily totally feeling like you belong here all the time. And if that's your way most of the time, like that's always replenishing, then your primary essence might be Queen of Cups a little bit.
[0:24:46]
If you are somebody who is incredibly nourished by creation, by ritual, by ceremony, by allowing things to come through you, creating them in community, allowing them to flow through your channel, be what they want to be, combining the depth of your creative watery essence with the fire and directness of your passion, and if that's what you always come back to, that's the tip of the mountain for you, you know if you can get to that, you will be reset—then Queen of Wands might be your primary essence. And again, I want to reiterate: these four energies are in all of us. One might be like 60% (Lindsay laughs), or one might be a little bit more than the others. But all of them are in there. And there are times where one of these will feel more nourishing than the others, or we'll need more of the others in certain times. But if one just kind of always feels like home, that's when we know.
So to continue, if we are nourished by communicating, writing, speaking our mind, speaking on something, letting our feelings be known, having a kind of connection with others, being really clear about where the lines are in society, around systems of injustice, around our own lives. If we are very, very interested in that kind of incredibly powerful work of dismantling generations of feeling like we could not speak up for fear of being harmed, or there is a sense of like, “Oh, I need to stay a little silent and kind of back away from this.” If we are really, really interested in communicating very clearly and also simultaneously about stating our boundaries and allowing those boundaries to be embodied very clearly, then we likely have a very strong primary essence with Queen of Swords. That's not everyone, but it is some people. I'm thinking of some people right now who are glorious in their embodiment of this. And I know they have all of the other energies living within them, right? But the way that their heart shines is in this really powerful place.
And if you are somebody who it is legitimately and genuinely your first instinct to bake a loaf of bread for someone, make an infusion for someone, create a little spread, make…like if a room can smell better, if we can get outside, if we can make things a little bit more luscious and delightful and delicious, if there can be snacks, and if there's an enjoyment and a delight in the tangible, sensual pleasures of this world, if we are in connection with our bodies in this way, even if it might be hard to trust, even if it might feel like not…then Queen of Pentacles is for sure a very potent primary essence. And some of those examples I gave with… Like, I consider Queen of Pentacles, I guess, to be my #2. Like, if there is a way for me to make a beautiful spread and, you know, get a lovely meal on the table, not fancy but delish and good, yeah, I love it. And getting my body out in nature. And I think everyone loves that, but I'm not necessarily… Like, I don't bake bread or anything like that. So some of those specifics might not track, you know?
[0:24:46]
So yeah, I don't know. I hope that helps. And again, I want to really take care to not limit any of these. Because you may feel like your primary essence is Queen of Pentacles, and nothing that I just said about Queen of Pentacles tracks for you. I want to just set off a big, flashing alert: you're right. You are correct. Nothing that I've just said should change, or ought to change your self-assignment, your self-resonance and claiming of Queen of Pentacles as a primary essence and as a very important Anchor in your life. And that's why I was mentioning like, “I'll kind of feel into painting with a really broad brush.” But I know that ultimately, this is going to look really different for you or for me than it might for another person. So it's absolutely okay if you're like, “Well, that doesn't sound like how I feel about this card.” Go with what you feel about the card because you're probably… I would center your own knowing before mine any day. So, hopefully, that helps. Thank you for asking me.
And then finally, we have our question from Anonymous here. And they ask,
I'm currently moving through a death-rebirth season in my business and personal life, most notably the loss of a parent.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
I find that I experience lots of nervous system activation through this process of being visible and seen in my business at such a rocky time where everything feels very liminal. Who I am and what I want to offer to the world is transforming at a rate I can't even fully articulate, but at the same time, I feel this profound urge to invite others (potential clients and collaborators) into this process—as not many people talk…not many folks talk about these experiences. I'm curious if you have any practices or external resources for when you've moved through profound Death/Rebirth seasons. Thank you so much for considering my question.
Well, first of all, again, I just want to center and honor you in this time of grieving. I am so sorry for your loss. And I'm just sending so many blessings on you and on your family, and I'm blessing the memory of your parent. (Lindsay sighs) This is such a beautiful question and it is a very specific experience, one that I have also gone through, which is, things can be… It's so odd to articulate, but we can be going through a total expansion in our business where everything is kind of popping off, and yet we're in a really huge Death place where there are a lot of things that are unclear, we're feeling quite raw, there are a lot of unknowns. It is really, really, really tricky and, you know, I'm honored to kind of speak to that. And I'll kind of speak to it in two branches. One of these branches may not be applicable for you, letter writer, but I wanted to speak to it, and I'll get to that kind of first branch in a moment. And the second one will likely be more applicable to you, Anonymous, because it will kind of be a direct answer to your question.
[0:33:47]
So I want to talk about kind of the two sides of Death/Rebirth in our business. And one of those seasons is when literally everything is dying, and it's not exciting. When money starts to ebb away, when clients aren’t booking and we don't necessarily understand why. When there is a Death process happening in our business, but we don't really know how we got there and there's no clarity, really. There's no… I recently just went through something of this, and to be honest with you, most people that I know doing work that are similar to this line of work have been going through this. And I think because we're in wellness or helping professional adjacent with a spiritual tinge, there’s still… It looms really, really large that we shouldn't talk about this stuff because it'll put people off. And why would they want to work with us if our business was going through a hard time? Whereas for me, I really reject that because I'm like, that's exactly who I want to work with (Lindsay laughs), somebody who has opted to ride a big wave of their business transforming and is coming out on the other side being like, “Oh, I surfed this wave and here's what I got from it, here's what I learned from it. I know how intense and how activating it can be.”
And it's not… I mean, of course, there are exceptions to this, but nobody did anything wrong. We're living in an absolutely unforeseen economic time. It's very, very different. The flow of what I want to do, what other people want to participate in is wildly different than it was even a year ago, not to mention three, four years ago. So for anyone else going through some pretty radical Death processes in their business, some pretty big changes to their financial kind of landscape of their business, you are still just as powerful and potent and connected, and your work is just as worthy, and powerful, and expansive as it ever was. And it's a massive, really hard time out there. And yeah, I'm just, major solidarity. Major solidarity.
So I think the way that you…the only way that I've ever known to make my way through that is just to be resourceful and to try to stay out of story—which I'm still learning. It's really easy for me to go into a lot of ego and story in comparison: how things were two years ago versus how they are now, my ego being really upset about the changes, and getting into the future. Like, “It's technically okay now, but what if it's not okay in two months?” I've been moving through this since about a year ago actually to the day or the week, and it's been pretty radical changes. And it's actually been kind of better. I'm a lot… It forced me to confront the fact that the way I was running my business before was absolutely very lucrative, but it was really not healthy for me. And that wasn't anyone's fault; I didn't know any better. I just didn't know any better. And a lot of people who get in business for themselves and whose work resonates with people very, very quickly and their business grows, and they're like, “Okay…”, they don't know any better. So I actually feel that the last year, even though it's been a very different financial landscape for me, it's brought me back to readings, which I have loved doing in a way that I haven't loved anything I've done as deeply as that in years. And I really enjoy my work. But the depth of intimacy and the opportunities to go very deep with people, the structure to my schedule versus, like, guided courses, the time I get to spend with my kid, it's everything. It won’t always be forever, but it's wonderful right now. And how lucky and privileged am I to be able to do that? Huge privilege to be able to do that.
[0:38:59]
So Death processes like that in our business, I think, call upon us to be really present. Because if we go into comparison, or story, or the future, which isn't to say that we can't make…we can't budget out and we can't sense into whatever we need to do to be responsible and make sure that we're taking care of ourselves. There really is nowhere to go but right here. And I learned that over and over: that when I'm here, even if I don't really know what I'm going to do next month, next month comes and I figure it out. And when I stress out about it, I'm exhausted. And when I don't stress out about it, the ingenuity kicks in and something does come. So again, that's my scenario. That's not necessarily anyone else’s. But I would say the courage to remain present within a Death process in a business where things feel like you're heading in the wrong direction is very important. And sometimes doing what you have to do to keep things going, things that you… I mean, again, my “Death” process in my business kind of forced my hand back to readings. And it was something that I resisted for some reason, and it was like the greatest decision I ever made—which has really humbled me to the limits of what I think is right for me (Lindsay laughs). Sometimes Spirit has something way better in mind, or some deeper knowing in me has something way better in mind. And sometimes I need to go through my process of fighting that, and so might you.
So I think that's helpful, and not having any shame about doing what we need to do to continue to be paying our bills, you know? Cause, I mean, obviously, giving readings is a fucking honor. But if I needed to get, like, a side job, I would have done it, you know? And the same goes for anyone else who might need that—just to know that that's okay and that nothing's permanent, you know?
Now, Death/Rebirth seasons in the midst of very big expansions, where there is a lot coming at us in our business, and there's a lot of growth and a lot of visibility, and everything is so rocky for us personally, that's sort of another branch of this tree. So, you asked specifically if there are any practices or external resources; I might not be the best person to ask about this (Lindsay laughs). So, you weigh out your own knowing. But I think you're asking me because I have always been—maybe even too much—very transparent about my issues, and challenges, and about my griefs, and about my difficulties, even when things have been popping and still are popping in some ways.
In my personal estimation—this is absolutely not what someone else would do—I say be honest about it and let it come with you, and let it be here. Let it crack you open. Let it soften you to what it is to be… There is something that—and it's not to romanticize it at all—but there is something that (Lindsay sighs) grief and loss and tumult and contraction do to our hearts. And absolutely, for some, it can harden their hearts and it can feel like we're more distant or more numb. And for some of us, it actually can feel like there's such a squeezing and a cracking open, even with all of those other feelings being there, that it can color the work and color our collaborations in very unexpectedly beautiful ways. It can draw us into conversations. It can beckon us to be a part of things that we may not have wanted to be a part of prior to that, that we…you know?
[0:44:23]
I always found it to be a very useful tool for filtering out the people who got it and got me because my work is all about that. I mean, that's my work. I really think ultimately, how I read and interpret the Tarot is like, how can this tool come with us through everything? Anything? The good, the bad, and the ugly, and everything in between it. How can it be a useful tool for us attempting to navigate this life, knowing that we're not going to make it out of it, knowing that eventually we will drop our bodies and die? That's something we all know but we don't think about. Some of us don't like to think about that. So I think standing in it, rooting in it and letting it radiate from you, being honest about it is one option that I think is responsible, ultimately, at least for me, with making and crafting the audience I have, because there is no artifice. I don't feel a need to fake anything. I don't feel a need to be on for this audience. I just am, you know? Yeah, and have tripped up and made mistakes and have probably overshared (Lindsay laughs), and have under shared and have been confused—I think it's valuable to feel our way into how we feel about that because sometimes certain people don't feel great about it.
Practices (Lindsay sighs). I mean, a sturdy, solid Tarot practice where we're able to really create a lot of space, draw in supportive Anchors for our day, for our week. Beautiful, right? For you, movement, vigorous movement might be really helpful. For another person, writing might be crucial, and movement is the last fucking thing they want to do. So I would say coming home to the body. And Tarot can help with that by… You know, if we tune in and we say, like, “May I have a gentle reflection or an invitation to bring me a little closer to what is really wanted here?” And honestly, you might not even need your deck for such a question, right? You just might tune in and know. So I would say letting the body, the heart lead the way can really, really help. But in general, anything that helps you to give yourself some really solid time, time for you. Not you the helping practitioner; you the human, you the being, you the vulnerable, making space at the table for your grief. And that might look like therapy. It might look like gathering in community. It might look like laughter. It might look like weeping. It might look like ritual that makes no sense to anyone else, or ritual that seems maybe not as potent or not as, like, wellness adjacent.
Like, I've talked many times about how I feel that television is medicine (Lindsay laughs). And I remember back in my early days of working where I really just didn't have… I was very permeable and very porous, and just didn't have very good boundaries in place. I tried so hard but it's really a learning curve and it just took me a long time to get there. And even now when my boundaries are very sturdy and I have a very strong, like, “This is work. Work is done. I'm in my life now.” Back in the day, though, oh my god, tucking into bed and putting on TV. Ooh, that was really important for me and I loved it, you know? Now it's like, we do it every once in a while. But it used to be a real ritual, and one that my partner and I really looked forward to and enjoyed. So, that's a practice too.
[0:49:23]
Resources? I wish I had some. I really do. I really do. I would say anybody who has been nakedly honest about their own process of grief, loss, mourning, their own challenges in their business, anyone who has been really real about that in kind of real time or close to real time… Because sometimes as business owners, things will happen and we have not processed it enough to even put it into a perspective where we're talking about it. So that's valid if that's where you are. And I think in terms of honoring your nervous system, any practice that can help you to feel like your nervous system is being tenderly honored and nurtured is really the key.
And I would say—because you have a call to invite in your clients and your collaborators into this process—just simply by speaking on what you're moving through, that's so powerful and is such a gift. And I am here to tell you, some people are going to hear you talk about this and be like, “Not for me. Next.” And thank God, because you don't want to waste your time on anyone who can't hang with the depths of life. There's nothing that binds us more potently and profoundly than the experience of grief and loss. And most folks, even folks in wellness—and I would say in some cases, especially folks in certain branches of wellness—feel to me like they kind of want to do the work to avoid that stuff. That if they think positively enough and stay away from all that negative stuff, that they won’t…that it won’t come into their life. It won't permeate them. And the truth is it's coming for all of us and is here for us. One need only to look around to be overwhelmed by grief and loss, especially collectively. You're dealing, obviously, with a very personal loss.
So I would say absolutely be brave enough to lean the hell into it and know that I am right there with you in solidarity. It is no joke to move through. I'm so excited that you're in a period of such profound expansion. And I feel personally that a lot of the time when there are things that pop up, experiences that pop up when we're in the midst of a really big expansion, it's typically there's something in it for us to pay attention to. For example, I mean, I've had health and pain issues for my whole life. But I had so many experiences in what I would call, like when my career was first starting to really take off, that were so intense and traumatic; things that I wouldn't even get into here because it would just be like… You know? You get it. That's enough information. It was so… Like health things and surgeries, and so intense. And at that time I was pretty honest about stuff, but at that time I didn't feel that I completely could be. I was still really feeling like I have to be consistent, I have to be on, I have to… You know, whatever. And so if I could encourage you to just blow right past that (Lindsay laughs) and just start with being like, “Hi, I'm moving through grief. How are you?” You will really find your people that way. Because you would be exactly who I'd look for in terms of someone that I'd want to work with, someone that I knew would understand and be able to move with me through those steps, and those feelings, and those underworld journeys.
So, I hope that was helpful. If you want something more specific, like if you have a follow-up to this, or if any of our lovely letter writers have a specific follow-up to this or some way that I can sort of amplify and specify the answer to your question, just shoot us an email and if I can, I will respond to you. And yeah, I always do my best to do that. I don't always get to it. This season of my life, there's not a whole lot of room for other stuff, but I'm always here to hear the responses. I always read them and they're beautiful.
Thank you so much, Wild Souls, for listening. Thank you to you three letter writers for writing in. And just sending so much warmth and care and, again, love to everybody listening and everyone not listening. Just a lot of warmth and care. And I'll see you all next week. Until then, please take care of yourselves.
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[Conclusion]
[0:53:16]
This podcast was edited by Chase Voorhees, podcast art by Rachelle Sartini Gardener, and this episode was transcribed by one of our absolutely brilliant and beautiful transcriptionists, all of which you can learn more about or read about on our website tarotforthewildsoul.com.
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